Symbol of Celebrimbor

[Kairos]

I would like to reiterate a point Thor made in an otherwise irrelevant thread: if the Symbol of Celbrimbor drops in a kinship FS, you may only roll for it if you intend using it to make (or have made) a level 65 second-age Legendary Item  for the player character in question. You may not roll for it with the intention of selling it, whether privately or on the AH. This has turned out to be a very rare drop, and the priority is to equip as many kinship members as possible with second-age weapons. Obviously, since the item is not bound this policy cannot easily be policed, but we depend as usual on everybody's sense of fair play. That said, I shall take a very dim view of any TWA member who consigns a Symbol of Celbrimbor gained in a kin run to the AH.

[Maconabo]

I concur

[Clodvig]

Is it open discussion, or already rule?

[Teolwyn]

Is it open discussion, or already rule?

It's a well-known fact that if you roll Need on an item for Greed intentions (for example to sell it on the AH), you are a rather greedy and selfish person, who'd might want to rethink having joined a kinship in the first place. No rule should be needed for this; if you behave that way in a kinship FS, I'm sure the Council wouldn't be the only people who would give you a sour look of disappointment. It doesn't belong here, it's as simple as that.

[draugthalion]

So the champ I ran with today who won the symbol and had it on the AH within the hour need not apply to TWA...  ?

[Teolwyn]

So the champ I ran with today who won the symbol and had it on the AH within the hour need not apply to TWA...  ?

It's hard to keep track of or in any way dictate people's looting behaviour in pick-up groups, of course. If this person would still do the same in a kinship run, he wouldn't be very well-liked.

[Kairos]

So the champ I ran with today who won the symbol and had it on the AH within the hour need not apply to TWA... 

I take it that must be Chabrion? Given that it was a PUG, obviously TWA guidelines don't apply, so I wouldn't hold it against him.

As Teolwyn very correctly points out, this case is anyway covered by the Need/Greed rule; if you were to Need on the symbol in order to sell it, it would be a very definite breach of our rules.

[Druth]

What other people do I don't really care about.

But I'd be very offended if a kinnie rolled on this, with intention of selling.
Don't think we need a rule for this really, but I'd not want to be in kin with someone who showed greed like that.

On a lighter note, I heard a rumor... that it drops at same rate wether ease mode or hard mode.

[Belegwe]

Oh? How solid is that rumour? That would certainly make easy mode a little more appealing.

[Thoronthor]

Is it open discussion, or already rule?

Well, the one does not exclude the other, you can discuss whatever you like, I would be interested to know anyone's point of view..

However, as already stated, it is common to regard need as anything for your chars use only, and if it is for monetary gain you should greed.
I think that is pretty much set in stone across all MMO's and I dont feel we need to write out every last detail when this can be clearly covered by common sense.

So yes, it is already rule, also because I made a direct comment on it, which you may regard as a leaders decision until such time the council or myself overturns it, which is not likely to happen until all members have their 2nd age items, and probably not even after that.

The way I see it there are plenty of ways to make money and only one way to get a lvl 65 2nd age.

[Clodvig]

I may agree with you, supposedly I would do the same - give to kin or someone, but... I am always against forcing people to do something, and I prefer to give each one possibility. No matter how stupid it sounds, but i prefer to belive in our kinnies kindness and they feel a little connect with TWA. In other way I think we are entering on really dangerous road of rules and orders...

[Thoronthor]

generally I would agree to give members as much personal freedoms as possible, but it doesnt hurt to be clear on matters, which if not said, may turn into a problem at some point.

From time to time, it needs to be made clear what is preferable and what is absolutely not done, otherwise it becomes hard to create and maintain a clear kinship identity.

For example, anyone thinking that they should have full rights to roll need and sell loot when others need it for their char would now be aware that this might not be the kin for them, which I think is a good thing. I do not believe such people exist in this kin however, but I don't know everyone as well as I should like.So a little clarity on important issues can go a long way to keep everyone happy, especially with the amount of new members every week.

[draugthalion]

I agree with Thor, occasionally a few rules need to be spelled out.  When I am in a pug it is free for all.  I understand that and used my example only as tounge in cheek .  For this kin I do not think those people are here either but am glad it has been stated .

One issue I would like to discuss however starts with Kairos initial post...

I would like to reiterate a point Thor made in an otherwise irrelevant thread: if the Symbol of Celbrimbor drops in a kinship FS, you may only roll for it if you intend using it to make (or have made) a level 65 second-age Legendary Item  for the player character in question.

One exception I would ask for and that clearly does not apply to me... consideration of a request for a player to bring an alt.  For example if Mac and El both wanted to run SG and we asked Mac to jump on Macwulf and then the symbol dropped...

I mean I know Macwulf has a 2nd age reforged weapon, but Mac does not, and I still think the player who contributed his/her time and not just the character should be given consideration especially when it was at our request.  This situation as I outlined make sense?  

Okay then thoughts?

[Belegwe]

That seems a fair enough point. I think the general idea should be that you roll need on the symbol only if you are actually going to use it rather than to sell it. I don't see any problem in rolling for it if an alt requires a crafted 2nd age. It is often the case that we ask someone to bring an alt on a run and I don't see it as fair that someone should be penalised by not being allowed to roll on the symbol because they helped the group to do the run in the first place.

[Maconabo]

also, please bear in mind that all crafting professions need the symbol, not just for weaponsmiths. Emblems , belts, runes all need the symbol too.